Nav Bar Code - Getting Complaints

[Sunclad]

Hi -

I've gotten a couple of complaints on the new nav bar code.  It seems the non-conventional tag of "  <WRCODESTART>  " and its compliment that ends the code segment is not being accepted in some circles.

I have not personally experienced a problem mysellf but a fellow with a site in my ring says that tag fails HTML validators and also may display as text in some browsers.  I am still attempting to determine which browser that is.

The fellow says this should not be a non-conventional tag outside of the HTML 4 standard, but rather a commented line with the system checker looking for the text within the comment.

His position is that as long as this non-conventional tag is in use he won't be a part of WebrinGo.

I don't know if anyone else is seeing this or thinks this is an issue but if it is, we'd be looking at asking site holders to get all new nav bar code again if this is changed to a commented line for purposes of nav bar validation.

I had no other answers for this fellow so I'm open to suggestion.

I may loose a couple of sites as a result but this does raise a question of being a problem down the road for certain browser or people using HTML validation software or services.

DMK

[Admin]

I have not personally experienced a problem mysellf but a fellow with a site in my ring says that tag fails HTML validators and also may display as text in some browsers.  I am still attempting to determine which browser that is.

It shouldn't display as text in *any* browser- browsers are supposed to completely ignore anything they don't understand, and custom tags like this are not uncommon (in fact they're what XML is built on. It may fail a strict HTML validator, but the tag itself has no side effects on the display in any conventional browser. If it becomes an issue we'll switch to something like a comment tag, but this was tested with IE, FireFox, Mozilla, Netscape, Konquerer, Galleon, and Opera without any problem. Those browsers make up 99.9% of the market. Again, if it becomes a serious issue we'll modify the code.

In the meantime he can remove those tags- the only side effect is that his site will "fail" the ring-code validation when the checker is run.


His position is that as long as this non-conventional tag is in use he won't be a part of WebrinGo.

That's his choice, it's a free country and he can be as picky as he wants.   Tell him that we'll take another look at the issue and may end up modifying the code, but it may not be right away. He can also substitute these tags below, which is what we'd likely move to if and when we do modify the code:

<!--WRCODESTART-->

and

<!--WRCODESTOP-->

If necessary we'll modify the ring-code check to accept both these and the original tags. Fair enough?

[doctor34]

It wasn't necessary before, so I really fail to see why it's necessary now, however what I've quoted here is the way it should be...  And FWIW, there should be a comment on the "get code" page saying these lines are req'd., as many people remove comments to reduce the size of their site for a number of reasons.

In fact, I've seen HTML editors that will strip comments and/or bogus codes, though the former is usually on request, while the latter will drive you batty with alerts!

Admin wrote:
He can also substitute these tags below, which is what we'd likely move to if and when we do modify the code:

<!--WRCODESTART-->

and

<!--WRCODESTOP-->

[doctor34]

With these tags, it still fails that part of the code checker, which I think I understood would be, however...

The code checker is saying that the code is inside an HTML comment on my site, which it is not!

http://b-men.org/ displays the ring nav. bar OK.  -There are no stray comment tags (all are paired), however there may be one or more that span more than one line, due to code I temporarily want hidden.  -The WR code is well outside the block(s), however, near the end of the page.

doctor34 wrote:
<!--WRCODESTART-->
<!--WRCODESTOP-->

[Sunclad]

doctor34 wrote:
<P>With these tags, it still fails that part of the code checker, which I think I understood would be, however...</p> <P>The code checker is saying that the code is inside an HTML comment on my site, which it is not!</p>

---------------

Yes, but the checker itself is not complete and has been documented in other areas in the forum as needing a re-write.  For now any number of errors are possible.

The most common "pass" results that I am seeing shows

Green
Green
Red
Green
Geen

However some sites running the new code are failing in other ways.  Until the folks here have a chance to re-write th echecker most of us running rings will have to just check sites manually.

[Admin]

Okay, to provide the maximum compatibility with HTML validators and to satisfy a few folks who were concerned about "non-standard" HTML tags (the "<WRCODESTART>" and "<WRCODESTOP>" tags), we made a change that should clear this issue up completely.

The START and STOP tags are now output as "<!--WRCODESTART-->" and "<!--WRCODESTOP-->". These tags will pass validation correctly in all known HTML valdators, as they are legitimate "comment" tags (part of the HTML specification).

You may still use the old tags if you like, as we're writing the code checker to accomodate both kinds of tags. All code generated from this point on, however, will include the new tags, so this issue can be considered as "resolved".

[Sunclad]

Admin wrote:
Okay, to provide the maximum compatibility with HTML validators and to satisfy a few folks who were concerned about "non-standard" HTML tags (the "<span style="font-weight: bold;"><WRCODESTART></span>" and "<span style="font-weight: bold;"><WRCODESTOP></span>" tags), we made a change that should clear this issue up completely. <br><br>The START and STOP tags are now output as "<span style="font-weight: bold; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 0);"><!--WRCODESTART--></span>" and "<span style="font-weight: bold; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 0);"><!--WRCODESTOP--></span>". These tags will pass validation correctly in all known HTML valdators, as they are legitimate "comment" tags (part of the HTML specification). <br><br>You may still use the old tags if you like, as we're writing the code checker to accomodate both kinds of tags. All code generated from this point on, however, will include the new tags, so this issue can be considered as "resolved". <br>


Update - March 24, 2007

One of my ring sites is reporting that they use Dreamweaver for web site lay out and it is giving them an error for the present web ring nav bar code.

I am attempting to determine now what platform they are on (likely Windows but a European flavor) and what version of Dreamweaver.  Also any specific error messages.

To get around the error they used NotePad to paste in the nav bar code on my recommendation.

As soon as I get more info I'll pass it along.

FYI at this time only.

DMK

[Admin]

Sunclad wrote:
One of my ring sites is reporting that they use Dreamweaver for web site lay out and it is giving them an error for the present web ring nav bar code.
As soon as I get more info I'll pass it along.

Yes, the specific error would be helpful, but I doubt whether would be much we can do from this end. As far as I know, the HTML in the nav code now is completely compliant and should validate without any problems. How Dreamweaver handles it may be another matter, but any error messages should help us figure out what's going on.

[Sunclad]

Admin wrote:
Sunclad wrote:<br style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-style: italic;">One of my ring sites is reporting that they use Dreamweaver for web site lay out and it is giving them an error for the present web ring nav bar code.</span><br style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-style: italic;">As soon as I get more info I'll pass it along.</span><br style="font-style: italic;"><br style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"> Yes, the specific error would be helpful, but I doubt whether would be much we can do from this end. As far as I know, the HTML in the nav code now is completely compliant and should validate without any problems. How Dreamweaver handles it may be another matter, but any error messages should help us figure out what's going on. </span><br>


March 25, 2007 -

It appears to be how Dreamweaver handled cut/paste of code:

Here is what I got from the person.....

------------

PC is a Packard Bell desk top with an Athlon 64 processor.
Windows XP SP2 family edition (French).
Dreamweaver MX

The problem is not that Dreamweaver produces error messages - Rather that
when I copy and paste the code into the page using Dreamweaver as an html
editor the code does not work and is not validated by the tool on the
WebRinGo site. This states that the code appears to be hidden inside
comments and asks that the comments be removed. Removing the comments allows
the code to work but it is still not validated by WebRinGo. Copying and
pasting exactly the same code using notepad appears to have overcome the
issue - the code works and is validated.
---------------

It soulds like he did what Dreamweaver said - remove the comments, which in turn removed the start and stop comment lines for the validator.

I recommended using plain old NotePad and that worked.

So you may want to tuck away that some WYSIWYG editors or other authoring packages might cause some unexpected results.

I had a similar problem with the Prodigy on-line site editor.  The site holder gave me their login data to do it for them because they were repeatedly unsuccessful.

Their ancient editor continually munged the code at all efforts to use it to paste in the code.  Finally I had to manually re-write the code using their on-line editor.  That was the only way I could get it fixed, character by character.

So yes, it ain't the code - its the stuff out there.  :-))

Regards.

DMK

[Sunclad]

Possible new nav bartype of issue...

I have been getting people from my holdings at Webring to come over here a few at a time.

I have now received 3 problem reports from new sites/members that say they cannot get nav bar code.  They go to JOIN THIS RING, register, then when they try to go get the nav bar code they are not seeing the drop down menu that will allow them to select the ring.

Now, at this writing I am not sure if this is a system problem or a browser problem.  I asked a couple of them if they had a pop-up blocker operating but haven't received a worthwhile response as yet.  In theory a pop up blocker should not be the problem.

However given that I got 3 people in a row reporting the same thing I felt I should post something here just in case.

FYI its Ring 393.

DMK

[Admin]

Sunclad wrote:
I have now received 3 problem reports from new sites/members that say they cannot get nav bar code.  They go to JOIN THIS RING, register, then when they try to go get the nav bar code they are not seeing the drop down menu that will allow them to select the ring.

This is an issue on our end, and it'll be corrected within a day or so.

This was the result of a procedural change that ocurred when the fancy nav bar customizer was added- it had the effect of not making the nav bar code available until they had been accepted into the ring, sort of a chicken-and-the-egg type of problem. This will be correct soon, and users who join a ring will be offered the nav bar code with the colors you've selected as the custom settings. If there haven't been any custom settings saved then they'll be given the plain-vanilla code (which they can modify once they've been accepted into the ring). 

[Sunclad]

Running into a couple of things but experience suggests no fix.

I have a ring site that has a jvascript pop up (a free hosting system).  That pop up requires a click to continue so the system checker cannot get passed it.  This is akin to the problems experienced with sites that have logins or warning screens.

The second is real odd with a fellow using a host that allows frames, but then refuses direct access to individual frames, probably through some kind of .htaccess type of thing.  We tried linking the specific frame page where the nav bar code is located but the host refuses direct access.

We're working with him now to see if he can place the nav bar in the top-most frame segment or come up with another page convention.  The nav bar is good but the checker cannot see it.

I'm inclined to consider allowing it but at the same time this would show up on auto-checker runs with every pass.

DMK

[Admin]

Sunclad wrote:
I have a ring site that has a jvascript pop up (a free hosting system).  That pop up requires a click to continue so the system checker cannot get passed it.  This is akin to the problems experienced with sites that have logins or warning screens.

You're probably correct in that there's no way around this. The nav bar really has to be on a page the checker can access directly, there just isn't any way for the checker to 'click' a jvascript prompt.


The second is real odd with a fellow using a host that allows frames, but then refuses direct access to individual frames, probably through some kind of .htaccess type of thing.  We tried linking the specific frame page where the nav bar code is located but the host refuses direct access.

Frames are definitely an issue; to access nav bar code within frames the checker would have to do some extremely tricky and intensive link-following, and it's just not feasible. We looked into this early on and found that it's not only very difficult, but would also allow unscrupulous site owners to play tricks on the checker and "hide" the nav bar code from actual users.

We're working with him now to see if he can place the nav bar in the top-most frame segment or come up with another page convention.  The nav bar is good but the checker cannot see it.

Please ask him to allow this, after all, if people can't access his page then he'll get no traffic, which is kind of the whole point of joining a web ring. I don't know for certain, but I believe this is also a limitation or restriction that Webring.com imposes- the nav bar code must be on a page the checker can access (the "landing" page specified in the site setup).


I'm inclined to consider allowing it but at the same time this would show up on auto-checker runs with every pass.

Yes, it would. There's a chance we may add some sort of manual override in the Ring/Site management panel to account for situations like this, but it wouldn't be for some time, if at all.

[Sunclad]

Today I added 4 sites to my ring.  Each site was registered and showed up in my Sites Management Screen.

Each of the 4 showed "0 Rings" in my Site Management Screen.

Clicking on "0 Rings" brings up a paage that should allow one to relate the site to a ring but no drop down window is appearing that will allow this.

Also, back on the Site Management Screen, when i click "GET" to get nav bar code, the same is true.  No drop down panel to select a ring.

I had this problem before and I think it was fixed but seems to still be there.

Since I cannot add them to a ring they don't show up on th eother management or ring hub pages.

By any chance is there a batch process that requires time for this to take effect, ie to allow one to relate a registered site to a ring?

DMK

[Admin]

You have to accept the sites into your ring before they'll show up in your drop down list for the code. I think this might be a step you're not doing. Here's how it works:

1. A site applies to join your ring.
2. You get an email notifying you of this.
3. At the same time, the site is added to the "Pending Sites" list in your Sites Management Panel.
4. When you log into the Sites Management Panel you'll get a link for "Pending Sites".
   
5. When you go to the "Pending Sites" list you can accept or deny the site admission into your ring.
   
6. Once that's done the site will apear in the drop down lists and everywhere else as well.

When you accept or deny a site, an email is also sent to the Site Owner informing them of the result.


Sunclad wrote:
Today I added 4 sites to my ring.  Each site was registered and showed up in my Sites Management Screen.

Each of the 4 showed "0 Rings" in my Site Management Screen.

Clicking on "0 Rings" brings up a paage that should allow one to relate the site to a ring but no drop down window is appearing that will allow this.

Also, back on the Site Management Screen, when i click "GET" to get nav bar code, the same is true.  No drop down panel to select a ring.

I had this problem before and I think it was fixed but seems to still be there.

Since I cannot add them to a ring they don't show up on th eother management or ring hub pages.

By any chance is there a batch process that requires time for this to take effect, ie to allow one to relate a registered site to a ring?

DMK