A warning for WR ringmasters...

[Siobhan]

  Just thought I'd let everyone know that Webring IS monitoring internal WRmail. I had a ring confiscated yesterday specifically because I sent out an e-mail inviting the members to join the Webringo mirror ring. In the e-mail, I did not allude to deleting the Webring ring or abandoning it in any matter, nor did my e-mail say anywhere that the ring was MOVING (it was only intended as a mirror ring, which would share a homepage with the WR ring). However, that was enough. While I don't want to copy-paste the entire e-mail from the TOS abuse guy I received (he was polite and helpful about the matter, and he did say that "those above" him had made the decision), I'll paraphrase to say that they are cracking down on anyone who sends off-topic e-mails advertising other systems, because of the "reaction of some RMs who have engaged in a malicious attack on WR by trying to get them to move to other hosts". Unfortunately, said webring was one I genuinely loved and was planning to keep as one of my two, post-January. And frankly, they very well could be monitoring this forum as well.

So for those of you who have created new rings, but have not yet notified your old members, I suggest you invite them directly through their contact information on their websites.
       

[opossumsal]

Siobhan wrote:
  Just thought I'd let everyone know that Webring IS monitoring internal WRmail. I had a ring confiscated yesterday specifically because I sent out an e-mail inviting the members to join the Webringo mirror ring. In the e-mail, I did not allude to deleting the Webring ring or abandoning it in any matter, nor did my e-mail say anywhere that the ring was MOVING (it was only intended as a mirror ring, which would share a homepage with the WR ring). However, that was enough. While I don't want to copy-paste the entire e-mail from the TOS abuse guy I received (he was polite and helpful about the matter, and he did say that "those above" him had made the decision), I'll paraphrase to say that they are cracking down on anyone who sends off-topic e-mails advertising other systems, because of the "reaction of some RMs who have engaged in a malicious attack on WR by trying to get them to move to other hosts". Unfortunately, said webring was one I genuinely loved and was planning to keep as one of my two, post-January. And frankly, they very well could be monitoring this forum as well.

So for those of you who have created new rings, but have not yet notified your old members, I suggest you invite them directly through their contact information on their websites.
       

 

 

 

I wrote to Webring System today and was shocked to get an answer.

 

Here's a copy of the letter I sent:

 

If you are going to keep me out of my ID Membership, please remove my ID (opossumsal) completely. Even though I can't log in, I am still receiving Webring mail. You have taken my rings from me and the more than $50 I had in my account. Please do not add insult to inury by leaving my ID showing as if I were still a member. Opossumsal is not a member of Webring, that was your decision not mine.
 
Here's their answer:

 

 No $ was removed from the account and it was not locked out either.  we DID have server problems.  The account can be restored from backups.  It will be looked into.

Frank

[Killer]

opossumsal wrote:

I wrote to Webring System today and was shocked to get an answer.

 

 No $ was removed from the account and it was not locked out either.  we DID have server problems.  The account can be restored from backups.  It will be looked into.

Frank

 

Check your account. If you have any reciept or proof from bank of the transaction, you can threaten to take legal action on them. Also monitor if they do restore your account as stated from their email.

[opossumsal]

Killer wrote:

 

Check your account. If you have any reciept or proof from bank of the transaction, you can threaten to take legal action on them. Also monitor if they do restore your account as stated from their email.

I just checked it and I'm still locked out of my account. But I'll keep checking.

[faeldray]

Siobhan wrote:
Just thought I'd let everyone know that Webring IS monitoring internal WRmail. I had a ring confiscated yesterday specifically because I sent out an e-mail inviting the members to join the Webringo mirror ring. In the e-mail, I did not allude to deleting the Webring ring or abandoning it in any matter, nor did my e-mail say anywhere that the ring was MOVING (it was only intended as a mirror ring, which would share a homepage with the WR ring). However, that was enough. While I don't want to copy-paste the entire e-mail from the TOS abuse guy I received (he was polite and helpful about the matter, and he did say that "those above" him had made the decision), I'll paraphrase to say that they are cracking down on anyone who sends off-topic e-mails advertising other systems, because of the "reaction of some RMs who have engaged in a malicious attack on WR by trying to get them to move to other hosts". Unfortunately, said webring was one I genuinely loved and was planning to keep as one of my two, post-January. And frankly, they very well could be monitoring this forum as well.

So for those of you who have created new rings, but have not yet notified your old members, I suggest you invite them directly through their contact information on their websites.

They're getting more and more desparate as time goes on. They must be losing a lot of people if they've resorted to scanning WRmails. It's really too bad that poor Siobhan had to find out the hard way! I really appreciate the heads up though. I was planning to notify my members through WRmail as well.

[Killer]

Did such a rule exists in webring term of usage that forbids members emailing other members about other webrings?

[Siobhan]

  faeldray wrote:

They're getting more and more desparate as time goes on. They must be losing a lot of people if they've resorted to scanning WRmails. It's really too bad that poor Siobhan had to find out the hard way! I really appreciate the heads up though. I was planning to notify my members through WRmail as well.

Every contact I have with support (or on the boards -- which I am done with, by the way -- I found I was wasting too much time there getting into mini-flame wars and if nothing is going to change, it is so not worth it) ASSURES me that there IS NO 'mass migration' out of webring, that this is all for the benefit and improvement of rings, etc. etc.

Well, okay. It's perfectly understandable and legitimate that cutting back on hundreds and thousands of useless memberships WOULD make it a healthier system, so... I have no problem there. But there's a skew in the statistics of people who have left webring. How many people are actually deleting their IDs? How many people are creating more IDs to increase their number of alloted "free" memberships? I personally have created 3 IDs in the past month for that purpose. I now have 6 IDs under my control, but will probably delete some of them after I finish re-arranging all of my different websites, existing rings, etc.

Killer wrote:

Did such a rule exists in webring term of usage that forbids members emailing other members about other webrings?

I know of no official rule though I'm sure it's been put somewhere into the fine print since, however they ARE targeting those people who are actively promoting other webring systems. According to the tech I corresponded with, they are using the argument that WRmail is a "privilege" and to use that privilege to promote other webring systems and potentially take paying customers away from Webring is abuse of said feature.

Quote (1st correspondence, in which s/he referred to not knowing exactly why my ring was taken because s/he was unaware of the TOS violation until I contacted them):

Let me clarify that any use of the "contact members" privilege that is unrelated to the WebRing is misuse. So, naturally, using it to invite members of our service to join another service is a huge violation. Think of it THIS way - why would any company want you to use their resources to take business AWAY from them? That is what an invitation to leave a Ring we host to join a Ring hosted elsewhere is.

Quote (2nd correspondence):

...any attempt to promote an outside service is being cracked down upon...because of the reaction of some RMs who have engaged in a malicious attack on WR by trying to get them to move to other hosts. Unfortunately, we have no way of knowing who is part of that movement so there is a crackdown on all off-topic emails by those above.

So there you have it.

To be honest, I was still on the fence about whether to become a paying customer until this fiasco went down. My plan was to consolidate all of my memberships onto one ID, use credits acrued in my account to go towards a Premium account (only about $6, and then pay for the rest. I'm not new to this whole paying-for-what-you-get thing, it's the limitations on the premium accounts that I opposed).

But now, I have no interest in actually contributing towards something so constrained, which I have done for free and without limitations for 9 years.
 

[Siobhan]

An update!

After some more correspondence about policies and the current situation with the Abuse tech, I have had my ring restored to my ID! I am quite thankful, and apparently it pays to be polite and understanding on my part.

However, this doesn't change the fact that if you're going to use WRmail to promote other ring systems, it will be flagged by the system and you still risk having your ring confiscated. Promotion of other ring services IS banned in the TOS, though who knows how long it's been there (could have been since immediately post-Yahoo, could have been last time they updated it.) But yeah, word of advice -- lay low, and keep your cool while dealing with support. Shows them we're not all hostiles ;)

Personally, I'm still cleaning out my existing rings and sites, and will leave everything at free-account limits. I've become too attached to the system after being there for 9 years to leave completely, but I doubt I'll be participating in the forums, and won't be picking up any new rings. I'd much rather be part of a system with more interaction and community such as this one is turning out to be than a commercial system with limitations, run by folk who don't quite have their priorities straight (why it didn't occur to them to clean up the system of deleted and abandoned rings before involving active members, who will ever know...)

Siobhan